POTUS Keeps It Classy

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 09/30/2020 at 09:36 • Filed to: None

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GO DONALD!

avalonian > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 09:43

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I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.  that was a mess last night. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > avalonian 09/30/2020 at 09:45

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I am most very definitely being sarcastic.

CalzoneGolem > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 09:46

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SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 09:48

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“Clown”

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > avalonian 09/30/2020 at 09:48

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If I am completely honest, I’d say that in some respects, President Trump did very well, but as always, he squandered it and when he went to personal attacks on Joe Biden’s son, Trump showed that he was on the ropes and I wish Biden had pointed that out. It was a move of desperation on the president’s part, IMO. It was worth the price of admission just to watch Donald Trump forcing himself to stand there and keep his mouth shut.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 09:51

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At his age, I appreciate Joe Biden for being willing to serve, frankly. He’d be the incumbent president right now if DNC had allowed him to run against Trump four years ago. As far as I am concerned, this has been the third term of a Clinton presidency.

UserNotFound > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 09:55

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No need to clarify - you can say whatever you want. A  reasonable observer ought to know what you meant. There’s legal precedent for it, after all.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 10:03

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Didn’t watch. Wouldn’t vote for either of them. Even the Libertarians have some stupid policy proposal s (“ Bring home our 200,000+ American military personnel stationed in foreign countries. No US military aid to foreign governments .”).

Would be nice to have a Common Sense Party. Sadly, very few people have common sense these days. There is so much room in the middle, yet the right feels like they must kowtow to the crazies on the far-right and the left tries to distance themselves from the loons on the far left by running a 70 yo career politician whose son (very much like the Trump family) traded on dad’s position for profit . Politics is a cesspool.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 10:05

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There’s at least a school of thought that says, as much of a train wreck as he seemed to be (and it was all a train wreck), Trump did actually get Biden to renounce the Green New Deal and several other programs. But the whole thing was pretty much un-watch-able.

The “whisper” amongst the finance, real estate, commercial leasing and small business crowd has been “have you read the Biden tax proposal”? There’s some extreme weapons-grade tax chaos in the plan . Anybody that reads it will be nauseated, at least anybody that knows how the world works . So, there’s some hope for a split bill of Biden winning, but the Senate staying GOP.  That may be the best of many very bad outcomes looming.

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 10:09

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Pretty sure the reason he didn't run was because he was grieving for his recently departed son, not DNC interference.

Kiltedpadre > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 10:39

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One of my favorite take away from the debate is it was such a shit show that circus workers considered it being called a circus offensive.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/940610/debate-bad-that-circus-workers-say-offensive-call-circus

Cé hé sin > haveacarortwoorthree2 09/30/2020 at 10:41

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Both candidates are well past the three score and ten, it must be said.

Trump, surprisingly, is as old as Bill Clinton who had the same job a long time ago.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Cé hé sin 09/30/2020 at 10:55

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Absolutely, Trump is beyond expiration date. But after he won last time, the Rs, for all practical purposes, were stuck with him this time. The Ds, though, had another wonderful opportunity to actually put forward a candidate to unite the middle but instead gave us Biden. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 09/30/2020 at 11:10

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Be that as it may, though certainly well qualified, Hillary was a bad idea and I said so to anyone who would listen at the time.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Kiltedpadre 09/30/2020 at 11:11

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My fave takeaway was when Biden dropped Kelly Ann Conway's name.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 11:14

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That would be a recipe for four more years of gridlock and rancor and dysfunction. On other words, the status quo.

fintail > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 11:21

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The FIRE industries are responsible for much of what ails us, and are treated far too kindly when it comes to both taxation and prosecution for their misdeeds.

Trickle down doesn’t work.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 11:22

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You really need to read the tax plan...

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > fintail 09/30/2020 at 11:25

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Take it up with Obama— he’s the one that let the Banksters walk, while keeping their bonuses. All the banks should have been nationalized. You know that and I know it.

The new Dem tax plan is an absolute economic  disaster. It’s so ludicrous one can only hope they (and you) are joking.

fintail > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 11:32

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Obama, and Bush, and Clinton, and Bush, and Reagan, etc - nobody has really reformed the FIRE gang. I hope nobody denies such policy isn’t bought and paid for. Remember the real golden rule.

The current/2017 tax plan is more deficit-creating trickle down fantasy that is only exacerbating the shameful American wealth/income gap and ever-declining socio-economic mobility. Stock markets are not the economy.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 11:33

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Now, what is (and you)? Are you treading the slippery slope of ad hominem ?

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 11:35

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I agree. I lived in Wisconsin in 2016—as good a place as any to get an understanding of white working/middle class swing voters. These are folks who aren’t particularly ideological and a lot of their decision making on voting comes down to kitchen table issues and personality.

So, so many of them were completely turned off by Hillary as a person. The Dem establishment (and primary voters) vastly underestimated how many people had such a low opinion of her. Having a good resume and policy positions was never going to overcome that.

The fact that the primary was effectively a 2-person race between her and Bernie was absurd. Bernie excites the progressive wing of the party, and also picks up some populist-leaning non-partisans, but he’s never going to be a viable candidate for president. There needed to be someone else besides Hillary who had a legit shot in the general. 

bison78 > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 11:36

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So you would prefer that the US continues with an unsustainable defic it , while the wealthy continue to not pay a reasonable amount of tax?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 09/30/2020 at 11:40

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Do you think the recent so-called “bombshell” report about Trump’s taxes will have much effect in the area you are talking about? Does it bug people that they’re paying more income tax than President Trump? Even paying taxes on their unemployment benefits?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > fintail 09/30/2020 at 11:40

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Look, the primary reason Clinton lost in 2016 was not “Comey” or “emails”... it was the leaked talk of her with the Goldman top earners saying “Hey, I’ll say a lot of nutty socialist crap on the trail, but dont’ worry about it.  I’ve got your backs. You’re the secret of my success.” It was nauseating.

The 2017 tax code fix also repaired a structural flaw in how rates applied. The code had been broken since 1986 Tax Reform Act. That’s why Apple had a few hundred billion of earnings parked off-shore. That’s now fixed (although “Stock Buybacks” should have been limited. That was a huge fuck-up.), despite the Dems zeal to go break the tax code again— one gets the sense that nobody in the party has ever run a business.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 11:41

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Don’t see the ad hominem .

Please elaborate.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > bison78 09/30/2020 at 11:44

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here’s what the breakdown looks like. Facts matter.

fintail > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 11:48

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Clinton lost because she called deplorables deplorables. which alienated tens of millions who might be kind of deplorable. I used to think it was also because she’s probably not the nicest person, but the wannabe despot in office now proves being a decent human isn’t necessary. The typical voter doesn’t understand corruption and I suspect most couldn’t define what “Goldman” is. If only this country had a real left wing.

If the tax code was fixed, it wouldn’t rely on more trickle down bullshit and deficits. It wouldn’t allow the buyback mess you mention. Most people I see who moan about running a business wouldn’t have shit without their parents/family, or public sector largesse.

Also, at least a few fun blurbs about the offshore component of that awesome tax policy that will no doubt bring boundless prosperity to American workers:

https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/trump-promised-to-bring-back-4-trillion-in-offshore-cash-he-missed-by-33-trillion

https://prospect.org/power/tax-act-actually-promotes-off-shore-tax-tricks/

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tax-overhaul-offshore-profits-20190327-story.html

MrSnrub > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 11:51

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The new Dem tax plan is an absolute economic disaster. It’s so ludicrous one can only hope they (and you) are joking.

It would be nice if you could elaborate on that, because nothing I’ve seen looks particularly radical or crazy.

https://joebiden.com/two-tax-policies/#

Raising the corporate tax rate to 28 percent.

Requiring a true minimum tax on ALL foreign earnings of United States companies located overseas so that we do our part to put an end to the global race to the bottom that rewards global tax havens. This will be 21% — TWICE the rate of the Trump offshoring tax rate and will apply to all income.

Imposing a tax penalty on corporations that ship jobs overseas in order to sell products back to America.

Imposing a 15% minimum tax on book income so that no corporation gets away with paying no taxes.

Raising the top individual income rate back to 39.6 percent.

Asking those making more than $1 million to pay the same rate on investment income that they do on their wages.

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 11:54

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I moved away a few years ago and I haven’t kept in touch with as large of a swath of people. The people I was hearing all the “yuck Hillary” stuff from were coworkers, people I encountered through work, and friends of friends. I interact with a lot of people in those kind of second-hand ways and many of them felt compelled to talk about the election.

I cut off contact with a decent chunk of my social circle there because in the time since I left, many of them have become increasingly open with far-right political views, and racism.

I have noticed in various places including oppo, a few too many people with the same “two different flavors of shit sandwich” feeling about this election as I kept hearing in 2016 . It’s not as prevalent, and Biden doesn’t inspire the same level of hate as Hillary did, but it’s there. Either in the form of lack of enthusiasm for him, or straight up disdain.

I’m troubled by this undercurrent because that’s exactly what did Hillary in with swing voters. That wasn’t her only problem but it was one of the contributing factors in her loss.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > MrSnrub 09/30/2020 at 11:56

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Two quick examples.

Eliminating the Step-Up on Basis at death invalidates tens of millions of estate plans. It’s a classic Charlie Brown “yank the football” slap in the face. Want to stimulate “Capital Flight”? This is a great start.

Eliminating the 1031 exchange will decimate the commercial real estate business... think business is bad now? This will shut down that sector, since it’s a tool that’s been relied upon for generations. Gone.

And breaking the rates on Corporate-Versus-Personal?  Re-breaks something that had been fixed finally after 30 years of a mess.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 11:58

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Neither of them looked very presidential.  It was a shitshow.

MrSnrub > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 12:29

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Interesting, I appreciate the response. These do sound problematic if you’re involved in real estate or expecting a big inheritance , but to be honest those aren’t people I have much empathy for. My understanding is also that most of the tax loophole closures like 1031 are only going to apply to people making more than $400k per year - I’m not too worried about those people either.

I’d be surprised if either of those details manage to pass congress anyway - it’s not like congressional Democrats wouldn’t be hurt by those changes too.

bison78 > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/30/2020 at 12:44

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You have a group of people in the 25% to 10% that pay the highest percentage of their income in taxes. Thank you for making my point.

Also, this graph doesn’t take into account other taxes, nor does it say anything about the profli gate tax givaways to the most wealthy by Republicans.

Meanwhile:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/28/fact-check-do-gop-presidents-oversee-recessions-dems-recoveries/5235957002/

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Kiltedpadre > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 12:46

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I’m hoping he treats it like a game and drops a different name each time. Bonus points if he works in Stormy Daniels.

Cash Rewards > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 13:11

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No. Nothing that you could say or provide info about for trump would sway one of his voters. If nothing he's already said hasn't swayed someone, nothing will

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > haveacarortwoorthree2 09/30/2020 at 13:25

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The limitations of democracy....are you suggesting that we ignore the primary process? If we’re talking strict campaign finance limits and ensuring all candidates who meet a certain agreed upon set of requirements receive the same level of attention and funding, I’m all for that. But that’s not the world we live in...and as much as I am not a fan of Biden, he is who the people chose by a wide margin. Are people idiots? Absolutely. But is he also significantly better and less stress inducing than Trump? Also absolutely. We could all use a bit of that. 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > fintail 09/30/2020 at 13:28

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Seriously. Corporations always, always, want the lowest tax bill possible. They all know the good times with the current tax law are too good to be true for the long run - and they’re right. But of course they’re going to be against any tax proposal from Biden because it will always be to the left of whatever Trump proposes. Doesn’t mean it’s bad for the country. 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Textured Soy Protein 09/30/2020 at 13:35

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a few too many people with the same “two different flavors of shit sandwich” feeling about this election

Amen. I really, really don’t get this. Do these people see and hear the two people we’re talking about? It’s nothing but an indirect way of saying they are OK with the status quo. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Kiltedpadre 09/30/2020 at 13:35

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Biden missed some good opportunities in the moment. He could have asked the moderator to simply turn off Trump’s microphone, or commented on how desperate Trump must have been to resort to personal attacks on his family.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Cash Rewards 09/30/2020 at 13:38

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I’m not sure about that. I think there have definitely been some people in recent weeks who have publicly come out and said they’d not be voting for Trump this time. Not droves, perhaps, but I am hopeful that there were people who were anti-Hillary enough to vote Trump, who would not do so again, and that they’ll find Biden a measure less loathsome than Hillary.

Kiltedpadre > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 13:53

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I was impressed to see him actually call him a clown and the worst president in history.

Textured Soy Protein > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/30/2020 at 14:05

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At this point I’m more mad at the “two shit sandwich flavors” people than I am at republicans. Republican thinking is deranged, and the people who think that way are beyond help. T he fence-sitters should know better.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Kiltedpadre 09/30/2020 at 14:41

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I’ll be curious to see how DJT might change up his game for next time. Everything about the Trump presidency has been degrading.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Textured Soy Protein 09/30/2020 at 14:57

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Completely agree. At this point if you’re a Trump republican I’ll accept it, at least you own up to it. It’s the fence sitters - typically out of some moral or intellectual superiority complex - that acts like they’re too good for either. Well guess what, a decision is being made whether you grace us with your perspective or not. If you sit out, given how skewed our electoral system is that is certainly suggesting they prefer the current administration but are too chicken shit to say it out loud. 

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 15:51

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The Onion nailed their headline today

https://www.theonion.com/stunned-pundits-criticize-trump-for-refusing-to-denounc-1845229050

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > haveacarortwoorthree2 09/30/2020 at 15:59

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The US needs to get rid of first past the post voting and go to something like ranked choice. It would almost immediately make 3rd parties much more viable.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 09/30/2020 at 16:00

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I would have to agree.

Cash Rewards > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/30/2020 at 18:24

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Im sure you’re correct, but that decision isn’t going to be based on anything said in a televised debate

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 10/01/2020 at 18:28

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D id you change your screen name in the past couple of months? Did you use to be something about a frittata?

My read of your comment is that you say, by including and you , that something I’ve said is a joke. Like you don’t want to take me seriously. If that is the case, and I have not misread your intent, then that would be an affront that I have worked hard in this thread not to deserve.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/02/2020 at 11:55

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My identifier is always “SBA” (the local airport code, since I fly out of there a lot... or used to) and the Stratos GIF (since we’re building a Stratos at the shop). Those haven’t changed for years since I got un-greyed.

The rest of it I do change from time to time, just to keep it temporal. That’s an idea (full disclosure) from The Jalopanese guy who turns up on the FP only infrequently these days.

No offense intended. The tax plans I’ve seen circulated DO contain some pretty nonsense proposals and I earnestly hope they are “kidding” to placate the radical wing of the party. The proposal to reduce the Estate Tax Exemption to something trivial, just to name one, buries the IRS in thousands of civil suits— mainly because you can’t just willy-nilly change that exemption without consideration of the Unified Gift Tax Exemption, which is inextricably linked to it. And, you’d have a large number of estates IN PROGRESS with the rules being changed. That’s a recipe for chaos.

Some tax changes are likely to happen. I just hope they are overseen by grown-ups who understand THE BIG PICTURE. That 1031 change, “might” generate some near term income, but would completely turn the commercial real estate world upside down... in a time when that world is already being COVID clobbered. More chaos.

And the proposed changes to the Basis Step-Up?  That’s utter chaos in a single line.

But, this is always me:

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > MrSnrub 10/02/2020 at 12:02

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Well, like always, it’s small businesses most affected, mainly because they are the ones most impaced  by, say, an elimination of 1031 tax treatment...

That’s capital NOT available to invest in the business, hire people, expand facilities.  That’s free capital pulled out of the system every time a piece of real estate sells.  It can’t be leveraged, can’t be secured.  It’s gone.

That’s where the disconnect always happens— people don’t even understand that the people most hurt by the screwed up business-versus-personal tax treament are their dentist, their insurance agent, their dry cleaner.  This hits Main Street much, much more than Wall Street-- who can just move assets to the EU or Asia at will.

All these changes will have a chilling effect on a much broader swath of the economy than the “soak the rich” crowd thinks... or can even understand.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > bison78 10/02/2020 at 12:05

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I always figure that this “we need a fairer tax system like Sweden” theory falls apart once you guys realize that Sweden’s got a flat 32% tax rate.

Which is sorta the point— the only place to go grab more income taxes is from people making less than $100K a year.

Anybody making under $50K in this country already has a pretty sweet deal.  They should realize that and be quiet.  But, they won’t.

MrSnrub > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 10/02/2020 at 12:44

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Anybody making under $50K in this country already has a pretty sweet deal. They should realize that and be quiet. But, they won’t.

I’m guessing you make quite a lot more than $50k.

Sweden has a 20% national income tax on high incomes. 32% is the average municipal income tax, which varies from place to place and is also subject to an allowance that scales based on income . So no, it’s not a flat tax in practice.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 10/02/2020 at 13:23

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Are you a professional pilot? I want to be, or at least I used to want to be, remembered as one of the greatest pilots who never flew, such is the depth of my interest in things flying, but I discovered I’ve kind of outgrown that particular dream...

I try to be careful to keep various political narratives separate, or at least be able to identify the primary ones. My taxes are simple enough and I pay a guy to do them each year and boy, is it worth it to me! The guy is scary smart and he did make a problematic suggestion last year that I took up and it created inconvenience for me, but at the end of the day the 1040 has my SSN on it... All of the tax stuff you’re talking about I have little ability to follow. But it does seem like many of the people who support the current administration do so out of a motivation to protect their personal wealth. I’m not meaning to imply that you are one of these, but at the end of the day, it’s all about financial interest, I guess.

More chaos? I keep being amazed at the ever increasing chaos capacity in our nation these days.

Thanks for the reply.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/02/2020 at 13:31

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My pilot friends would say “No”. Light sport only. Just enough to get off the ground a few times a month.

My point’s just that (I’m quoting Bert from Mad Men here) the whole tax structure is “a finely tuned machine”. Very few changes can be made in a complete vacuum without affecting lots of other collateral damage issues.

Any owner-operator (hair salon, insurance agent, consultants, etc) could get clobbered by the 1031 exchange thing— the whole world of commercial real estate is built on that foundation. Yank out the 1031 brick and you could cause a lot of rubble.

There’s a half dozen of those in the published tax plan.  It’s really scary, in that a few of those could have a terrible ripple effect on an economy already teetering.  The sophisticated consultants to the campaign surely understand that-- so one sorta hopes it’s just lip service.  I guess we find out when the Senate flips.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 10/02/2020 at 13:35

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Are you calling it? Are you predicting a flip of the Senate?

Lip service ??? Is a thing ?

I coined a phrase recently: one cannot be honest and be a politician, and [fill in the blank] is a career politician.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 10/02/2020 at 13:36

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Do you rent whatever ship you fly? What typically for a craft?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/02/2020 at 13:51

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I think the electoral map is far uglier for the GOP on the Senate side.

There’s certain places in the country that seem to love Trump more than they did last time— they could actually carry a couple states they didn’t last time (even Minnesota).

I think it’s more likely the whole thing flips (Senate and WH), but if it’s a split I think it’s more likely the Senate goes Dem.  Once.  If they actually pack the court and abolish filibuster they’ll pay a huge price in 2022, IMHO.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/02/2020 at 13:53

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I’ve got a Bearhawk and an old Kitfox (one-place).

I had aspirations for an Ercoupe-D (which does qualify LSA), but my neighbor put his down in the mesquite and soured me on that idea.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 10/02/2020 at 13:56

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The SCOTUS thing is interesting. One thing that Trump said in the debate which I thought was on point was, and I paraphrase, “We got the justices because we had the election.” Straightforward and correct. I think the Dems overplayed their weak hand and got a very bad look out of the deal, though in truth, young people everywhere would be well to be schooled by how Justice Gorsuch’s behavior came back to haunt him and his family. Neither Gorsuch, nor ACB are anything but upstanding conservative judges.

If the Dems take the Senate and work with the House to pass laws that are legal, then SCOTUS shouldn’t be a problem for them, should it?